Online Now 794

OUInsider - Owen Field

The place for the most trusted source for reliable, accurate information on OU Sports

On this Board 355
Record: 3486 (2/3/2013)

Online now 716
Record: 4487 (2/14/2012)

Boards ▾

OUInsider - Owen Field

The place for the most trusted source for reliable, accurate information on OU Sports

Basketball & Other Sports

Men's & women's basketball, baseball, softball and other OU sports

O'Connell's Off Topic

The place for discussion on topics not related to the Oklahoma Sooners

Tickets Exchange

The place to buy, sell or trade tickets

Reply

SEC and the playoffs

  • SEC coaches have come out in favor of a four team playoff to include the best teams in the country -- and not be tied to conference champions. Their reasoning: we don't want only conference champions because the four best teams in the country might be from the SEC. Currently, the Big 12 is considering its position on this. Is it better for the Big 12 to support a champions only format or side with the SEC and try to get two or more teams in the mix each year? Not considering the Big 12, is it better for Oklahoma to favor one way of the other. What say you?

    signature image

    lasvegassooner

  • To me this is a flaw in the proposal; SEC manipulation. Also, it exposes a flaw in the "4 team only" model. There is not a big enough sampling of teams to make it a better way of determining a more "true" NC.

    hooknladder

  • I agree with the SEC. I want to see the top 4 teams. Is it much of an accomplishment to win the Big East? There have been years when 2 Big 12 teams would have been in.

    OU MAJOR

  • I believe I read this morning that Joe C came out in support of this idea.

    "Burnt orange makes me puke!" - Mother Teresa (unverified)

    VladTheEmailer

  • IMO - - it ought to be conference champs; it doesn't make sense to say "we're national champs, but could not win our conference". I think the Bama/LSU game has brought this to a head. Should they have played a "rubber match" - - best two of three? There probably was not a team in the top 10 that LSU would have beat on that championship night. (I know the Sooner played for the national championship after losing the conference - - that wasn't right either.) I believe the SEC's stance is self serving. Hopefully, we can make improvement on removing the bias from the voting - - I see ESPN promoting certain teams and I think the Coach's poll show bias toward their conference and other teams they play. (Doubt if they watch many games of teams they will not play.) At any rate, whatever the system - - it makes for good conversation.

    SoonerPsych

  • OU MAJOR said...

    I agree with the SEC. I want to see the top 4 teams. Is it much of an accomplishment to win the Big East? There have been years when 2 Big 12 teams would have been in.

    I think this may be true, if there was a level playing field. The fact is that ESPN pimps SEC out of proportion to other conferences. The chance of more than two teams from the SEC being in the top four are very, very remote.

    I think the SEC knows how to continue the conference mantra that they started, before they were winning the championships. That is something that a conference with Texas as a member will have a hard time duplicating. I know that the SEC is on a very good run, the last few years. But who else had a chance last year? And some of the years they won, it was a close game. It isn't that they have beaten a non-SEC by greater margins than they beat their in-conference rivals every year. I think a very good job by SEC teams has been blown past reality.

    We can't let some peoples passion about playoffs take us dubious assumptions. One good thing about a play off. Then the crazy-eyed all I want is a playoff proponents will have nothing to say, regardless of how reality may not meet their expectations.

    This post was edited by jimnrh on 5/31/2012 at 11:52 AM

    jimnrh

  • SoonerPsych said...

    IMO - - it ought to be conference champs; it doesn't make sense to say "we're national champs, but could not win our conference". I think the Bama/LSU game has brought this to a head. Should they have played a "rubber match" - - best two of three? There probably was not a team in the top 10 that LSU would have beat on that championship night. (I know the Sooner played for the national championship after losing the conference - - that wasn't right either.) I believe the SEC's stance is self serving. Hopefully, we can make improvement on removing the bias from the voting - - I see ESPN promoting certain teams and I think the Coach's poll show bias toward their conference and other teams they play. (Doubt if they watch many games of teams they will not play.) At any rate, whatever the system - - it makes for good conversation.

    Here we go...........everyone has emoted over "winning the NC on the field. They do it in every sport save college football." Well, you can't have it both ways, 3 of the last 5 Super Bowl Champions were Wild Card entries. You want an NFL like playoff experience? Look for regular season mediocrity.

    capclay

  • SoonerPsych said...

    IMO - - it ought to be conference champs; it doesn't make sense to say "we're national champs, but could not win our conference". I think the Bama/LSU game has brought this to a head. Should they have played a "rubber match" - - best two of three? There probably was not a team in the top 10 that LSU would have beat on that championship night. (I know the Sooner played for the national championship after losing the conference - - that wasn't right either.) I believe the SEC's stance is self serving. Hopefully, we can make improvement on removing the bias from the voting - - I see ESPN promoting certain teams and I think the Coach's poll show bias toward their conference and other teams they play. (Doubt if they watch many games of teams they will not play.) At any rate, whatever the system - - it makes for good conversation.

    clapclapclap You sir get an up vote from me. There are more than four conferences so some conference champ will be left out every year anyway. It would put that much more emphisis on the regular season conference games if you have to win that to win the crystal football.

    OUManiac

    OUManiac

  • It should be the 4 best teams but I think the regular season would be better if it had to be conf. champs

    signature image

    OUinLA

  • It should be conference champs. If you cant win your conference, then its obvious that you arent one of the four best teams. What they arent saying is how we will decide who the best four are. If its the eyeball test, which means most eyeballs didnt see the games and teams they are voting for, then I say no thanks. Conference champs kills all the flavor of the month chatter and it gives every team in a conference that they decide should be in a fair and equal chance to win the national title.

    Conference champions should be given more respect over non champs. This protects their "regular season" and even makes it more valuable.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

    bruthaman

  • We know that there will be a deal where if the fighting irish win six games they will get consideration in being one of the four picked. The whole thing will be a mess. You could go to an eight team playoff where the six major conferences the pac 12,big 10,sec, big 12, acc & big east get their conference champ in and then there are two teams that are wild card teams.

    OUManiac

    OUManiac

  • An eight team playoff will never fly at this stage. Gotta get it off the ground first, Orville, then we can talk turboprops.

    The conference champ policy would make the regular season more exciting and cut out snoozers like the LSU-Bama rematch but the domers would never allow it.

    signature image

    lasvegassooner

  • lasvegassooner said...

    An eight team playoff will never fly at this stage. Gotta get it off the ground first, Orville, then we can talk turboprops.

    The conference champ policy would make the regular season more exciting and cut out snoozers like the LSU-Bama rematch but the domers would never allow it.

    College football would be just fine without ND.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

    bruthaman

  • I've never totally understood the whole "you have to win your conference to win the national championship" argument. It's a long season. Was there any question that Alabama was the best team in the country by the time the season was over? In the NFL, you could hypothetically finish 2nd in your division, get beat twice by the team that won it, get in the playoffs as a wild card, and then go win the Super Bowl without having to beat that team that got you twice. I realize it's not the exact same thing that happened with Bama and LSU this year but it is a similar idea.

    That being said, this thing does reek of SEC and ESPN manipulation.

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Hudson310 on 6/1/2012 at 11:23 AM

    Hudson310

  • No way it should just be conference champs, because then you have a 9-4 conference champion playing for a national title they have no right to play for with and 11-1 or 10-2 OU, LSU, Alabama etc not getting a chance because their league was tougher to win and their lone loss was to a top ranked team. It's idiotic to determine a national champion by not including the best teams especially in a playoff format, might as well not have one then.

    89 Sooner

  • How would the 4 Conference Champs be chosen...the highest ranked four of however many BCS conferences exist? Who gets left out in this formula with six current BCS conferences?

    Sooner5020

  • 89 Sooner said...

    No way it should just be conference champs, because then you have a 9-4 conference champion playing for a national title they have no right to play for with and 11-1 or 10-2 OU, LSU, Alabama etc not getting a chance because their league was tougher to win and their lone loss was to a top ranked team. It's idiotic to determine a national champion by not including the best teams especially in a playoff format, might as well not have one then.

    Just because your record is better does not mean your team is. Its too subjective to say "just pick the top four". Well, thats what has us in the mess in the first place. Its obvious that the top teams cant be picked without bias and good ole boy stuff going on. So, picking the top four isnt that simple. Im all for taking opinions out of it by saying conference champs only, but people just cant warm up to that because of their...................opinions as to who is better and who isnt.

    All champs kills the polls, kills the bias. Win your conference or stay home. It cant be made any more plain than that. Your conference harder than others? Oh well, you picked it because of money. This way, your tradtion, what you did last year, whos your coach, your budget, your facilities, your TV contracts or your conference wont mean a thing. Its all about what you did this year on the field. If you dont get in, you can still go to these bowl games they are so giddy about.

    There is nothing more dangerous in this world than a man with nothing to lose.

    bruthaman

  • SoonerPsych said...

    IMO - - it ought to be conference champs; it doesn't make sense to say "we're national champs, but could not win our conference". I think the Bama/LSU game has brought this to a head. Should they have played a "rubber match" - - best two of three? There probably was not a team in the top 10 that LSU would have beat on that championship night. (I know the Sooner played for the national championship after losing the conference - - that wasn't right either.) I believe the SEC's stance is self serving. Hopefully, we can make improvement on removing the bias from the voting - - I see ESPN promoting certain teams and I think the Coach's poll show bias toward their conference and other teams they play. (Doubt if they watch many games of teams they will not play.) At any rate, whatever the system - - it makes for good conversation.

    Well, you may not think it was right for OU to play in national champ. game without winning the conference, but we had the best team in the Big 12 that year....just because our league set up a dummy game of north "champion", a mutli-loss KSU team, and the south champion, no way were these the best "two" teams in the league. Why should KSU, on a lucky night, derail an entire season of domination by OU, especially when they weren't even the second best team in the league over the season?

    soonerschooner

  • soonerschooner said...

    Well, you may not think it was right for OU to play in national champ. game without winning the conference, but we had the best team in the Big 12 that year....just because our league set up a dummy game of north "champion", a mutli-loss KSU team, and the south champion, no way were these the best "two" teams in the league. Why should KSU, on a lucky night, derail an entire season of domination by OU, especially when they weren't even the second best team in the league over the season?

    Why should Oklahoma be rewarded and allowed to play for it all when they got their ass handed to them? People have talked about how close the lsu/bama game was last year and that was one of the reasons that the second game was, in some peoples eyes, ok to play. We didn't just get beat in that title game in 2003 we got our butts handed to us by ksu. I believe the final was 35-7 or something along those lines. That was about as one sided as a hanging. I can tell you that if it was a big 10 team that got beat like that in their title game I wouldn't want them playing for the national title.

    I really think this whole four team playoff is going to really piss a lot of fans off. There will be conference champs that might have only lost one or two games and they will not get a shot at the big prize because only four teams can be picked and you've got six BCS leagues. Then you've got arrogent jerks in the sec talking about how they might have the four best teams in the country.

    OUManiac

  • IMO i think it should be conf champs + 1 wild card in the 4 team model. absolutely no repeats. if you got beat by a team in the regular season there should be no rematch. period. i didn't watch the NCG because i felt it was absolutely ridiculous that bama get another shot. they had it and blew it. tough $hit. move on to the next. i am sick of espn and the sec. that's all you ever hear about is how bad ass the sec is. something has to give to take the bs bias away from espn and get the big picture clear before anything will work long term.

    rican

  • From Stewart Mandel, SI:

    "On one side, we have the Big Ten, Pac-12, ACC and Big East, all of which have endorsed incorporating a conference-champion requirement for most or all of the four teams selected. On the other side, we have the SEC and Big 12, whose leaders made it clear this week they want the top four teams, period, whether those teams are chosen via a revised BCS formula or an NCAA tournament-style selection committee.

    The sides are drawn, and it's starting to get ugly, with SEC commissioner Mike Slive criticizing other conferences for trying to "gerrymander" the playoff field and Alabama coach Nick Saban calling out "self-absorbed people who are worried about how it affects their circumstance or their league rather than what's best for college football." Saban, of course, was referring to Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, who previously said, "I don't have a lot of regard for" a team that doesn't win its own division (cough, 2011 Alabama, cough).

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/stewart_mandel/06/01/three-and-one-playoff-model/index.html#ixzz1wZeF6eay"

    The Big XII(and OU) are in a great position, they have the luxury of siding with the SEC, their Champions Bowl partner, but realize that the other 4 BCS conferences, who have more votes, are likely to push for four conference Champions, which short term is the probably the best arrangement for the Big XII. Win, Win.

    Obvioiusly it's easier to win a 10 team conference, than a 14 team conference, but to truly make the 4 team format work, you need 4 Super Conferences. Four Super Conferences is the best way to make the regular season relevant and create the best playoff. I only wish we could hear the behind the scenes conversations with the real power brokers in this deal.

    - the Big XII rises from the ashes and becomes a Super Conference, based partially on their management of third teir rights and individual University Networks(Thanks Chuck N)
    - ND is forced to join a conference to be relevant
    - Conference Championship Games become a Play In game to the final four

    NOTE: don't be shocked to see a change in how the Conference Championship Games work. OU-Texas in 2008 and LSU-Bama in 2011 should have been Conference Championship games. Fix this issue, and it will be easier to have the Four Conference Champions in the Final Four.

    Once it was decided that we would have a Four Team Playoff, this thing took on a life of it's own. The next two or three years will be fun to watch. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.

    This post was edited by NCJIM on 6/2/2012 at 6:58 AM

    NCJIM

  • NCJIM, I like your how the conference championship game should be worked out. How many times have we seen where the two best teams are in the same division? That way, we could have shut fexas' pie hole in 08'.

    If a conference champion has to be included in the scenario, then the champion of that conference should be ranked in the top ten to qualify. How could a Big East champion UCONN team of a couple of years ago be seriously considered to be in the four team championship? What were they ranked at the end of the year, something like No. 20? Maybe this way, N.D. might have to join a conference. Also, strength of schedule should factor in deciding who the best four teams are. That way, teams would have to play more quality opponents through out the year.

    If the top four played last year, they would have came from three conferences. I think everyone wants a N.C. game with the two best teams. Now all that has to be done is cut through all of the b.s. to get there. That's where politics is going to ruin it.

    JetDoc

  • i'd rather it be the best 4. but if the 4 have to come from the pool of conference champs, that still beats the hell out of anything to date.

    i know it's dead in the water but i loved the idea of the top 2 seeds hosting the semis.

    GeorgiaCrimson

  • bruthaman said...

    Just because your record is better does not mean your team is. Its too subjective to say "just pick the top four". Well, thats what has us in the mess in the first place. Its obvious that the top teams cant be picked without bias and good ole boy stuff going on. So, picking the top four isnt that simple. Im all for taking opinions out of it by saying conference champs only, but people just cant warm up to that because of their...................opinions as to who is better and who isnt.

    All champs kills the polls, kills the bias. Win your conference or stay home. It cant be made any more plain than that. Your conference harder than others? Oh well, you picked it because of money. This way, your tradtion, what you did last year, whos your coach, your budget, your facilities, your TV contracts or your conference wont mean a thing. Its all about what you did this year on the field. If you dont get in, you can still go to these bowl games they are so giddy about.

    Doing it your way would have had Clemson and Wisconsin in a playoff and not alabama who would have smoked both of those teams. The flaw there is that the best team in the country doesn't get a chance to play for the title... Can you honestly sit there and say that you would have been ok with those two teams in a playoff just bc they won the weak big ten and acc and Alabama not being in? That's ludacris to me, any normal person that knows football could look at one quarter of each teams games and tell that Alabama was superior to those two teams even though they didn't win their conference

    89 Sooner

  • how about 4 conference champs but you must be ranked in the top 10(7 or 8 maybe) of a RPI ranking with an emphasis on strength-of-schedule. if you are not ranked in the top 10, then that spot goes to the highest rated wildcard until all four slots are filled. This gives the teams an incentive to play a tougher schedule and if you lose a conference game you still might get in. ND gets in if they win on a tough schedule. If you have a weak RPI conference then schedule tougher OOC games.
    I think that this can be modified alittle to be a fit to everyone. Just my opinion.

    This post was edited by TXsoonerZ on 6/3/2012 at 5:22 PM

    TXsoonerZ