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CrimsonHeart said...
OK, let's talk about your statement regarding execution being an excuse, and it's the coaches responsibility for the player to execute correctly or find another player who does. Remember that?
So tell me-
Kenny Stills hit square in the hands on what would have been a huge 3rd down conversion to keep a drive alive. He drops the ball. Coaches fault? Are they supposed to bench him at that point?
Trey Franks goes for a big gain after a reception but then coughs up the football. Is that turnover on Stoops or Heupel.
Landry throws into triple coverage and gets picked. Josh's fault I take it? With a good QB coach there would be no int's?
How about the uncharacteristic penalties that bailed Baylor out of 3rd and long. You think the players are coached to do that?
We line up to take the lead on a 2 point bell-dozer but not before our OL has a false start, one if the relative few this season. Is that on the coach?
Do you really think there us little or no responsibility on the player to execute? It's literally all on the coaches?
Then of course on the other side RG3 executes like a machine all night. Does he get credit for his excellent play, or did the coaches do all that executing for him?
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Hudson310 said...
Obviously every single error isn't the coaches' fault. Dropped passes, etc. happen. First of all, a lot of those are physical mistakes. If a guy falls down, fails to make a tackle because he doesn't wrap up on one occasion, drops a pass or jumps early, that is on the player. But when a team has guys running wide open in our secondary for an entire game, at some point it has to go back to coaching. Whomever is at fault, if they don't understand what they need to be doing to keep guys in front of them, it's on the coaches. Especially ten games into the season. It's not as if Baylor was the first prolific passing attack we've faced. On top of that, Baylor had an 80-yard TD called back due to a hold, dropped one sure-fire long TD and overthrew another. So that's three more potentially huge plays we could have given up. I know the kind of potential this defense has...I've seen it. I just wish they would be more consistent. For all the crap that has happened this year, we could be undefeated and ranked second if we hadn't crapped down our leg in two games. Those teams had no business beating this team, given its talent and experience.
As to RG3, of course he deserves some credit. The dude is awesome, and I don't think anyone realistically expected a shutout or to hold them under 17 points. But 620 yards and 45 points? Really? The real kicker is that we actually played well defensively for a great deal of the game as Baylor had huge problems sustaining drives. But they apparently saw something schematically that they felt they could take advantage of and we never seemed to adjust to it.
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WestlakeSooner
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WestlakeSooner said...
As I have pointed out before, this was supposed to be a team that was in the National Championship game. Both the press and the media thought we had the talent to win it all. As recently as last week, at least two prognosticators had us in the National Championship game, despite the TTU loss.
So, if we're that good, then how in the heck do we end a 39 game HOME win streak to a terrible Texas Tech team who TORCHES our defense for 31 points before we wake up? We are a 16 point favorite to win at Baylor, a team we have never lost to, and we lose the game, allowing Robert Griffin to beat us in 54 seconds?
Well, the obvious is that our defensive performances in big games has been unacceptable in the Venables as DC era. USC, BSU, WVU, TTU, BU, these teams all scored 40+ points on our defense, and that has become a pattern. Defense wins championships - PERIOD. Venables needs to "move on," and I'm sure its no surprise to anyone on this board that I strognly feel that Mike Stoops is the best man for the DC job.
As second issue is that our special teams have also been lacking ever since our ST coordinator left, and Bob hadn't hired another one. When was the last time we blocked a punt or kick? We haven't had a solid FG kicker situation since Garrett Hartley. Time we fixed that.
Even if we do win the Big 12, it was NOT a successful season in my mind, because we vastly underachieved. You don't lose to Tech at home and then Baylor ANYTIME and call it a successful season. Sorry, we are NOT TEXAS!
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CrimsonHeart said...
If this team wins the Big 12, I would love for you to meet some of them face to face and tell them personally how much of a disappointment they are in your eyes.
The only thing more disappointing than the losses is the bush league reaction of some of our supposed "supporters".
Just freaking shameful.
Go Sooners! 7 - Time National Champions! 7 - Time Big XII Champions!
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WestlakeSooner said...
As I have pointed out before, this was supposed to be a team that was in the National Championship game. Both the press and the media thought we had the talent to win it all. As recently as last week, at least two prognosticators had us in the National Championship game, despite the TTU loss.
So, if we're that good, then how in the heck do we end a 39 game HOME win streak to a terrible Texas Tech team who TORCHES our defense for 31 points before we wake up? We are a 16 point favorite to win at Baylor, a team we have never lost to, and we lose the game, allowing Robert Griffin to beat us in 54 seconds?
Well, the obvious is that our defensive performances in big games has been unacceptable in the Venables as DC era. USC, BSU, WVU, TTU, BU, these teams all scored 40+ points on our defense, and that has become a pattern. Defense wins championships - PERIOD. Venables needs to "move on," and I'm sure its no surprise to anyone on this board that I strognly feel that Mike Stoops is the best man for the DC job.
As second issue is that our special teams have also been lacking ever since our ST coordinator left, and Bob hadn't hired another one. When was the last time we blocked a punt or kick? We haven't had a solid FG kicker situation since Garrett Hartley. Time we fixed that.
Even if we do win the Big 12, it was NOT a successful season in my mind, because we vastly underachieved. You don't lose to Tech at home and then Baylor ANYTIME and call it a successful season. Sorry, we are NOT TEXAS!
This post was edited by Hudson310 on 11/22/2011 at 11:58 AM
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bigsooner said...
Nobody has to tell them, they already know.
While sharing the Big 12 title will be nice end to the season, was that the goal at the beginning of the year?
This was supposed to be a NC winning season, and it's not.
Can you honestly say that TLewis won't look back and not think OU lost his last shot at a NC? He can be proud of another conf championship, but that wasn't why he came back.
Yes, winning another conf champship is a sucess, but to act like not one of the players or coaches won't be dissapointed is not being honest.
Like I've said this is just a message board, and anybody can post their opinions, but imoi, your constant use of "suposed supporters" "bush league" "shamefull" and "comical" on every post where somebody disagrees is overkill.
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Hudson310 said...
I don't think making blanket statements like that about Venables is entirely fair. Have his defenses been inconsistent? Yes. But they have also put out some GREAT performances in big games, some of them against very good offenses.
+2004 OU-Texas - we shut them out. They went 11-1 that year and won the Rose Bowl. That was the year Vince Young started to become Vince Young and Cedric Benson rushed for over 1,500 yards.
+2006 Big 12 Championship Game - held Nebraska to 7 points. They were not great, but Zach Taylor was the Big 12 offensive player of the year.
+2007 Bedlam - held a very good OSU offense to 17 points.
+2007 Big 12 Championship Game - held Missouri, ranked #1 at the time, to 17 points. Frustrated Chase Daniel so badly I think he probably cried after the game.
+2008 Texas Tech - They came in setting the world on fire and had lit up Will Muschamp and Texas. By the time they got to 7, we had 28. By the time they got to 14, we had 59.
+2009 OU-Texas - we lost the game, but our defense played more than well enough to win despite Sam going down and our offense struggling with a very young Landry at the helm. In fact, if Keenan Clayton hadn't dropped a sure-fire pick-6, we DO win the game. Texas finished 13-0 and played Alabama in the national title game.
+2009 Bedlam - shut out OSU as an underdog.
+2010 Bedlam - OSU scored 41, but 14 came on a pick-6 and a KO return and we turned the ball over two other times as well. OSU's offense was not good...they were great. We harassed Weeden and forced him into three picks.
+2010 Big 12 Championship game - I know Taylor Martinez was injured, but our defense DOMINATED after a slow start. They literally could barely get a pass off without us destroying their QB.
These are just off the top of my head and I'm sure there have been others.
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Hudson310 said...
I don't think making blanket statements like that about Venables is entirely fair. Have his defenses been inconsistent? Yes. But they have also put out some GREAT performances in big games, some of them against very good offenses.
+2004 OU-Texas - we shut them out. They went 11-1 that year and won the Rose Bowl. That was the year Vince Young started to become Vince Young and Cedric Benson rushed for over 1,500 yards.
+2006 Big 12 Championship Game - held Nebraska to 7 points. They were not great, but Zach Taylor was the Big 12 offensive player of the year.
+2007 Bedlam - held a very good OSU offense to 17 points.
+2007 Big 12 Championship Game - held Missouri, ranked #1 at the time, to 17 points. Frustrated Chase Daniel so badly I think he probably cried after the game.
+2008 Texas Tech - They came in setting the world on fire and had lit up Will Muschamp and Texas. By the time they got to 7, we had 28. By the time they got to 14, we had 59.
+2009 OU-Texas - we lost the game, but our defense played more than well enough to win despite Sam going down and our offense struggling with a very young Landry at the helm. In fact, if Keenan Clayton hadn't dropped a sure-fire pick-6, we DO win the game. Texas finished 13-0 and played Alabama in the national title game.
+2009 Bedlam - shut out OSU as an underdog.
+2010 Bedlam - OSU scored 41, but 14 came on a pick-6 and a KO return and we turned the ball over two other times as well. OSU's offense was not good...they were great. We harassed Weeden and forced him into three picks.
+2010 Big 12 Championship game - I know Taylor Martinez was injured, but our defense DOMINATED after a slow start. They literally could barely get a pass off without us destroying their QB.
These are just off the top of my head and I'm sure there have been others.
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CrimsonHeart said...
Where exactly did I suggest that players and coaches are not disappointed?
I'm well aware they are, and I'm also well aware they have every right to be. They have put in countless hours of work, and given their blood and sweat to a degree that the casual fan will never have a clue about,
They have sacrificed.
You and the other snipers here have not.
Yep, my opinion is that it's extremely bush league for someone that claims to support a team to actually turn on them and trash players and coaches when the scoreboard doesn't turn out right.
You jokers demand that someone pay in some way because you are butt hurt about a game.
Got news for you - you are not owed jack squat by Joe C, Bob, or any other coach or player in the program.
In fact, we owe them a big THANK YOU for busting their azzes and doing their best to win football games week in and week out.
But you all just go right ahead and act like spoiled babies because some other people didn't win a NC that you could brag to your friends about.
My opinion is that is just freaking shameful, and I'll post my opinion if I choose to whether it's OK with you or not.
PS- saying someone is behaving like a spoiled brat is not calling them a spoiled brat, but I'm thinking that subtle difference is lost on you. I don't know you personally, but if I read spoiled brat statements I'll call it like I see it.
Go Sooners! 7 - Time National Champions! 7 - Time Big XII Champions!
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CrimsonHeart said...
Haven't you heard? When BVs defenses come up big then it's no longer considered a big game by the coach bashers.
They have decided he sucks, so don't be trying to show examples to the contrary. You will be labeled a sunshine pumper.
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bigsooner said...
Like it or not that's the nature of the game. Fans are always gonna be fans. good and bad
What I would I be owed from JC or Stoops? Where did I ever say something was owed?
It is such in a irrational thougt to act like fans should just blindly support a teams and coaches with millions and millions of dollars, years of emotional investment, time, and because they didn't play, they reserve the right to be critical. You can't have it both ways. That's the nature of the game.
And nobody said your opinion was bush league, read my friend, read. It's your constant use of shamefull, bush league, supposed suporters, butt hurt at nauseum, because people don't share your view that imo is overkill.
And please stop acting like people don't thank them just because they don't always like the roduct on the field. That is such a mischaraterzation of the truth.
Once again fans can act like spoiled brats if they want to that what make people fans. Not everbody is gonna agree with you.
You seem to be the only person that thinks fans expect to win a NC every year, Fans realize that doesn't happen,
The thought that people pay hard earned money and give time to a game, should just should just sit back and be thankful that they just have team to root for no matter what, is just irrational.
BTW you respond to post you seem to get very butthurt EVERY time somebody disagrees. Pot meet Kettle.
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CrimsonHeart said...
You dont read many of my posts, or you would see level headed discussions with people who have different opinions than I do.
In fact, I'm totally cool with people questioning coaching decisions or saying they don't agree with a particular decision.
But yes, I do get "butt hurt" when people cross the line into calling for coaches jobs, or saying they suck, or saying players suck, or saying coaches and players are stupid, or diminishing achievements like winning a conference title, or acting like coaches are not trying their best, or acting like all other teams stink and we should easily beat them all, or taking for granted the work and time and effort that is put in to provide for us fans ONE OF THE ELITE PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTRY THAT IS THE ENVY OF 98% OF THE COLLEGE FOOTBALL WORLD.
When I make my donation to the Sooner club and pay for my tickets there is no guarantee for any certain result. Not 1 single victory is promised.
When I question or second guess a decision, or when Im disappointed with a result, I will always keep in mind the overall track record of success and the incredibly hard work that happens to make it so, and because of that I feel the players and staff have earned the respect and support of the fans.
You don't agree, OK.
But anybody can support a team when things are rosey. How hard is that?
I find it sad that in times of adversity some fans, instead of supporting the team, will abandon all class and dignity and act like angry spoiled brats that are entitled to a certain result.
Guess we just disagree.
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I can't believe the negativity