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If atm johhny football was still in the big12, he would be just another of several excellent qbs.Now that he is in the sec, he has no peers. This is because the overall qb play in the sec has been horrific for years. Its easy to look great on d when you mostly play below average qbs. Bama finally got a dose of what ou has been facing most of the time, every yr in the big12. Last yr, Lsu played 4 sec qbs making their 1st start ever, yet the espin was that they played toughest schedule ever.
In '08 josh morgan was a middle of the pack big12 qb since over half of them made nfl rosters, including morgan who has been a starter for tampa for several yrs. The best sec qb that yr would have ranked #8 in the big12 qb ratings. Sec blames it on weak big12 d, but the number of big12 qbs & offensive playmakers in the nfl proves that wrong.
This post was edited by killcasualfan 20 months ago
It is Josh Freeman, but you make an excellent point. The Big 12 has developed into a conference of outstanding quarterbacks.
My bad, nice catch of that error. I hadn't had all my coffee! Didn't josh morgan also play qb for ksu, believe in 2000?
Anyhow, here is a listing of the final 2008 Big12 qb rankings...
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma 186.29
Colt McCoy, Texas 179.20
Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St 178.01
Chase Daniel, Missouri 164.76
Graham Harrell, Texas Tech 163.03
Joe Ganz, Nebraska 156.72
Todd Reesing, Kansas 145.81
Robert Griffin, Baylor 142.00
Jerrod Johnson, Texas A&M 137.37
Josh Freeman, Kansas St 136.48
Austen Arnaud, Iowa St 127.44
Cody Hawkins, Colorado 118.14
Compared to the final SEC qbs at that time...
Tim Tebow, Florida - 176.74
Matthew Stafford, Georgia - 153.17
Jevan Snead, Ole Miss - 142.75
John Parker Wilson, Alabama - 123.81
Casey, Arkansas - 122.45
Jarrett Lee, LSU - 116.93
Chris Smelley, S Carolina - 115.25
Tyson Lee, Miss St - 112.96
Mike Hartline, Kentucky - 102.93
Kodi Burns, Auburn - 97.65
Vanderbilt total - 99.8
Tennessee total - 98.0
Johnny Manziel is friggin' amazing. Whether he plays in the SEC, Big XII, or MEAC...doesn't matter. I'll buy the fact that the SEC hasn't had the QB talent of the Big XII, sure, but the defenses in the SEC are better. Period. The season A&M has put together, on the back of Manziel, is impressive.
Josh Morgan was a WR. You may be thinking of the great Michael Bishop or El Roberson.
not sure the defenses are better... put any sec team in the big 12 and they will give up way more points and yards than they do in he sec... maybe a better way to look at it is that the sec offenses are way worse
It may be because I live in Baja Oklahoma, but I'm really starting to get annoyed with this whole Johnny Football thing. He's having a really good year, and the Alabama game catapulted him into the national consciousness, but it's becoming an irritation.
And I read this week his family is attempting to trademark the name Johnny Football, "to protect Johnny." Right.
Is the rest of the world getting saturated with daily doses of this kid like we in Tejas are?
Might be fun to play the aggies this year in a bowl game.
I am the morning DJ on WOLD
Try working with a bunch of Aggies! It's like they don't know what to do with themselves now that their football program has had a taste of national relevance.
And Vlad, as a displaced Oklahoman living in Texas, I'm stealing "Baja Oklahoma." Just fair warning.
Sure this makes sense except the SEC beats the crap out of every conference opponent they play every year. Just be happy the Big 12 can say they're the 2nd best conference. Put Manziel in the defenseless Big 12 and his numbers would be even larger.
I agree. But given the big12 offensive talent, the weekly stress put on big12 defenses is far greater than what sec defenses have to face. The nfl draft proves this. Yes, some of them will now have to worry about johnny football once a season and will have 40 days to prep for a jason white or bradford playn a bowl game in their backyard, but its a myth that more than 3 of the sec defenses are elite
your wrong but even if right, stop irrationally taking credit for the accomplishments of your rivals.. with the johnny football hype, the question we will never hear is how is the atm d going to stop the ou spread passing attack. i remember driving back home to new orleans after ou hung half hundred on texass and saw alot of atm fans at the shreveport whataburger still stunned after la tech did the same to them...in true sec style, this was the only legit passing attack faced all yr by atm
This post was edited by killcasualfan 19 months ago
How do stop a mobile quarterback? Great defensive line and linebacker play. The defenses in the Big 12 are bad, very bad. Manziel is going up against the best defenses in the country and still putting up huge numbers. In my opinion, he wouldn't just be another quarterback in the conference, he would be dominating in this league too.
Email: email@example.com. Follow me onTwitter @TylerMccomas247
Of course he would play well in big12, just like several other talented big12 qbs do every year. When I say he is an average joe I am not saying his talent is average. I am saying he would be just another talented big12 qb. Josh Freeman ranked #10 in big12, yet starts for tampa. Graham Harrell led his team to #1, yet ranked 5th among big12 qbs. Both very talented qbs, yet average joes in big12 given the depth of talented qbs.
Sounds like you have a Man Crush on Manziel he played 3 teams this year with over 6 wins and lost 2 of those because he SUCKED in the second half of everyone of those games. This whole mirage of the SEC is great is vastly over-rated they have 3 or 4 good teams and the rest Suck. Ole Miss. almost beat the Aggies and the Shorthorns Blew them out. Frankly I am sick of Johnny Football and will see what happens om Jan. 4th. Maybe you should root for Aggie's Tyler!
Huge Sooner and have been my entire life. I live in Texas now and I had the pleasure of watching Johnny Manziel play all through high school in Kerrville. I saw this kid do things on a football field that were really unbelievable but that was high school or so I thought. Really thought he might play the slot or a db at the next level, Texas saw him as a db as well. This should be pretty obvious by now, this kid is a special player and a long way from average. That being said I hope OU plays defense with their hair on fire and shuts him down completely.
No, I don't have a mancrush on him, I'm just stating facts. The guy played in the best defensive conference and lit it up. That's just facts. If you put him in the Big 12, who knows what he does. The defenses in this league are bad.
The defenses in the sec have the luxory of playing 1 or 2 above average qbs each season whereas the big12 defenses have the weekly grind and stress of playing mostly heisman contenders and nfl picks. once in awhile, an sec qb with big12 talent comes along, such as johny, scam newton, jamarkus russell, and they blister the so called sec defense
it's a chicken or egg argument?
are the O's in the SEC bad or is it b/c the D's are so good.
UF was supposed to have a terrible O this season, and FSU was supposed to have a great D....and we all see how that turned out. Then S. Carolina vs. the vaunted Clemson spread.
Bama vs Michigan this season (at least based on early thoughts about how good UM was supposed to be).
Bama beat UM 41-14 with it's starters out in the 3rd qtr......ND beat UM 21-6 and the starters played the whole game. Hard to draw many concrete answers from these games, but it's a starting point.
just pointing out a few examples.....LSU vs. Oregon is probably another one you can point to in previous years.
should be a Cotton Bowl.....don't think either team is sporting an UF, LSU, or Bama D this year.
The Heisman saga can wear a player down. History shows some mini-flops in bowl games after all the trips. Steve Owens was an exception in the OSU game. He had been awarded the trophy before the last game and amazingly ran the ball 55 times in that game. Late, OU punted and the first coverage guy downfield to make the tackle was Owens.
The Sec has 3 Teams with elite defenses Not the whole conference. And his stat's versus those teams are NOT eye-popping.
Fla. 173 yds Cost them the game
Lsu 276 with 3 int's in the second half that cost them the game
LJ Has 300yds and 1 fumble and 1 int. versus KSU and 356yds and 1 int. versus ND and is completely deleted from the Heisman race. But Johnny can feast on La. Tech, Auburn, Miss. Sam Houston etc etc and everything is OK. ????
PS Maybe you listen to the pundits instead of checking the facts for yourself.
This post was edited by sooners85 19 months ago
Manziel got lucky and caught a year when Heisman candidates were down. I see him coming in third behind RG3 and Andrew Luck in last year's race.
I agree it Sucks that he will be the first freshman that wins it, when Walker and AD are 10 times Better than Him.
I actually watched all of those games. Remember this, the Florida game was his first ever collegiate start. Not easy going against an 11-1 team on your debut. If I had a heisman vote, I wouldn't have voted him as the winner. I'm just saying that the defenses he faced are far better than the ones in the Big 12.
This post was edited by Tyler McComas 19 months ago
I agree the top 4 are Better but a lot people think because they Win the NC the entire conference is Awesome which is just not true. I guess the Cotton Bowl will tell us a lot, is A&M better or is their schedule weaker. I think the later. They played this year when 40 points will dominate that just doesn't happen in the Big 12. It totally is the chicken and the egg discussion.
the days of blithely dismissing big12 offensive talent as a product of playing allegedly weak defenses are over. the nfl draft has proven this esecpin myth wrong with the large number of big12 offensive players routinely drafted. the nfl doesnt draft simply based on stats. otherwise you would have a boise, byu, etc taken in 1st round each yr
Were candidates really down? His numbers were better than Cam and Tebow, but numbers were down? You're right though, he probably would have come in behind Luck and RGIII. If the voters had a choice between two candidates with similar numbers and one is an upperclassmen the UC will win every time.
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