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a question for Canyoneeer

  • It's a big jump from the quality of JUCO football to Division 1, particularly to the level of top-20 teams.

    Do you see any of this year's JUCO recruits able to contribute this season, or will it take longer to make the transition?

  • Not canyoneer and I am interested in his take on this but I will offer what I know. A good many of these JC recruits were highly regarded out of high school and did not qualify, there are also those that have tremendous athleticism but did not blossom or take things seriously until JC and I have to assume there are plenty from small schools that do not get ranked properly and get over looked. All in all talent is talent and plenty teams do pretty well with JC players, HS kids have the same hurdle as well and I would bet the good JC teams would man handle most HS teams. Hope this helps.

  • I think there is a learning curve with any new ballplayer. And with HS kids there is a learning curve, and usually a more dramatic physical curve as well.

    With a JUCO kid you either try to find one who learns (at least on a football level) fast, and has the work habits to do that extra work they will need. But, with JUCO kids there is not usually the physical challenges you find with the HS kids. For example, OU has been talking to a DT that was largely ignored out of HS, didn't work out much, and played for a poor team. Well, in the two years since he has gained 43 pounds, and about 1 1/2 inches in height Most of that is good weight, and I believe he has gone from a 200 pound bench to 440. Clearly, his challenges will be mostly learning the schemes and some of the technical things that he will need to master,

    Usually kids have more trouble with the learning aspects than with the physical aspects coming in from the JUCO level. That is why you often see kids from the JUCO ranks not do as well in the positions such as db (where you better have mastered the schemes) or qb. In the less "thinking roles" such as rb the JUCO kid can do better because if is usually a more physical challenge and less of a mental one. Get the ball, know the hole, and go.

    I know that Everett has had some difficulties so far, and they are primarily learning a new system well. I expect that they will simply the requirements for Damien, Courtney and Bester for the first month or so. The great thing about this year is that the first part of the season is set up for that. By the way, wr positions are generally positions that JUCO kids can do well in when they move up since there are usually simple routes that these kids already know. But I a tell you that OU's offense is not easy to master, and the learning curve is steep. Reasons include high expectations for blocking, and the speed of the sequence of plays. If you are not where you need to be your QB is going to start ignoring you.

    One important thing about this year that is going to be dramatically different than last year. When Whaley and Broyles went down there was little vertical threat from the OU wr's. Sometimes they couldn't get off the line of scrimmage and were jammed. Db's are going to have a heck of a time jamming Bester and Gardner, and Metoyer. That strategy is over. And if Jalen comes in you can do some nice things with motion, and if he gets a step it is over. I expect you are going to see some LONG TD plays this year as jamming fails and the safety doesn't get over.
    Personally, with Bester;s incredible ability to go laterally i would put him in the slot at times. Big boy, and tough to bring down and his ability to see the field is superior, like Damiens (and he will be catching some balls for OU as well).

    Canyoneer

  • Thanks for taking the time to provide such a thorough and insightful reply. I always look forward to your comments on this board.

    I'm hoping that the academic issues are settled (not just transferring, but remaining eligible) for these guys. As a CA community college (Fullerton College) faculty member, I see this as a constant struggle. Too many of the football players with a chance of transferring only seem to get motivated in the classroom when the offers starting rolling in, and is usually too late in the semester (fall or spring) to finally start working in the classroom.

  • CH-

    What happens to a lot of these JUCO kids (at least from my perspective) is that some are just late bloomers and are passed by, and/or others were enabled in HS to the point of having little or no academic interest or capability. Some of the best athletes I have ever worked with had everyone in HS telling them how great they were, and never did anything in class whatsoever And, unfortunately most believe the myth that they are NFL bound and that they are in these classes just marking their time..

    Reality has little to do with their sheltered lives. And then it is right in front of them. And that is often too late, The habits are not there, and many times is no connection made between what they are doing and the work world. And their parents are often uninvolved, or enabling as well.

    I personally believe that there needs to be a wholesale evaluation of the CC system in the US on many different levels. I would like to see that start at the academic needs of the community, then their relationship to the larger academic world. And then the athletic systems. The question, what realistically is the role of the CC in the bigger picture.

  • I get the picture! Thanks and set the hook, gently, its trout

  • Wow, great points. This country has been slacking and living off the fat for so long, I wonder if we can really get back to some common sense. You have some very valid suggestions. Thanks for all your posts. I look forward to them.