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Tebow v. Manziel and the OU QB of the future

  • Is the question really between Bell, Knight or Thompson or is it really what direction the coaches will take the offense post-Bradford/Jones era?

    IMHO, I think the latter and I think the decision is already made (but with the caveat it can be changed if needed).

    Do the coaches wait to see who is the best QB through spring, summer and fall competition and then try to build a QB run offense around it? I doubt it...you need spring and fall practices to groove such a change in an offense.

    Or have they already have plans in place to modify the pro-style offense and add the QB run option beyond the Belldozer? And if they do the run option which style...the Tebow/Klien model or the Manziel/RGIII model? The Tebow/Klien model is more orientated to the power run game that includes the QB(cloud of dust) versus the QB centric model of Manziel/RGIII model which is less scripted and QB makes things happen with quick feet and a good arm.

    Bell can obviously do the Tebow/Klien model, but the others may not have body mass to pull it off. If Bell gets hurt which QB is big enough to move the pile like a Bell or Klien on the OU roster?

    My understanding (via this Board and private sources) is Knight wowed coaches playing the role of Manziel (which begs the question, if our defense couldn't stop Knight in practice how could they stop Manziel?). Does this revelation, the offensive success of A&M (and Baylor last year), the failings of the Belldozer late in the year (and KSU and Klien later in the year), its easier to recruit the scrambling QB and that we have backups for this type of QB play on the roster now play a part in their decision?

    I think the coaches go with Bell and the Tebow/Klien model. Whatever model I think the coaches are leaning one way over another and therefore are leaning toward one candidate over the other even before practice.

    Any civil thoughts appreciated?

  • I can't stand the little prick but I don't think there is a Manziel model. He plays with his hair on fire. Whatever happens, happens.

  • Great thoughts. You have to believe the wheels are in motion to adjust offensive philosophies. As S Tillman noted, attitude is needed from the QB to raise the team too. I think the coaches are also looking for a QB with "IT" who can elevate others. Tebow, Manzel, RG3 had that in addition to running ability. No offense, but Landry and most QBs in the Stoops era werent the most boisterous, outgoing leaders on the filed. Lets see which OK QB gets offered and it will tell us a lot in both regards.

    This post was edited by BigTexSooner 18 months ago

  • Dual threat wouldn't be bad, but it must be a TRUE dual threat! A QB NEEDS to be able to complete passes- period! Running is a great second option. It's not a "new" concept exactly. Fran Tarkenton, Staubach, Kilmer et al were there first.

  • If I had to guess, I think Bell will be the starter. Saying that, I think it's more power running game. But, is this offensive line equipped for a power running game? I'm not so sure it is. I think you could see both the power running game and a mix of zone read. Obviously that's all speculation at this point.

    Email: tylermccomas08@yahoo.com. Follow me onTwitter @TylerMccomas247

  • I think you are wrong. We are not changing our offense and are not looking for a different style of QB. Our top prospect this year was a pure passer that cant run much better than Landry. Last year we went after a pure passer that couldn't run. Now we did end up with passing QB's that do have the ability to run, just like jason White, Rhett Bomar and to an extent Bradford. Nothing has changed and I don't think they want it to change. My two cents worth.

  • Stoops stated that they fashioned the Belldozer after Klien and K-State. The early guess is that the QB run game will be expanded to mirror what Klien did at K-State although I think defenses were starting to catch up with that offense in the end.

    The hope is that Bell has a far better arm than Klien. We know he will have better receivers, but can OU's line move the pocket?

    One of the intangibles of Klien was he made few mistakes and safeguarded the ball...cant say that about Bell just yet...still smarting from the fumble on the one.

  • Could be true...if you are right:

    ...that does not bode well for us next year. If the coaches were solidly with Jones over the QBs that remain, that means under the present system, Jones was the best passing quarterback and he is now gone.

    So, if, as you suggest, we are not to expand the offense to take advantage of the different skills the others bring, we can assume, at least until after Texas, our new QB will be not as good executing the passing game as a QB who lost three games...which means we will have to rely on our defense...uh oh.

    On the other hand, if the coaches know the passing skills of the new QB (let alone knowing the offense and reading defenses) will be less than Jones in the beginning, they will try to leverage skills that Jones did not have that these three QB have in abundance...like being able to run the ball...just a hunch.

  • I hope I'm right but I dot see us going after any more "storks" at QB. By all accounts Cody Thomas is a great baseball player so I imagine he has some wheels. Also, last year's QB recruit Trevor Knight has been compared to Bradford (as opposed to Jones or say Hybl) and we have just been informed that he can run from the QB position. Then Thompson is clearly a dual threat as is (in a different way) Bell. And all came in as passers.

    The problem with running QBs is that they get injured. I live in Austin and every Texas fan I speak to thinks Colt McCoy's injury against Bama cost them that game. I agree. Colt could run and that is what made him so dangerous, but they all get hurt. Colt also got hurt against K-State on a goal line play his freshman year that hurt their team. Tebow got hurt his Sr year. RG3 got hurt this year.

    I actually think teams will go more to he Oregon model of having 2 QBs play some. Hey, even Bob Stoops played 2 QBs the last 2 years. Don't be surprised if we do it again next year as we will undoubtledly emphasize the QB running game more, one way or the other.

    Maybe the question should be: Which 2 QBs will make up the rotation?

  • I think it bodes well for us. Jones was not going to lose his job had a Manning brother been a Sophomore. Bell could end up being the most prolific passer we have had. He was the highest ranked passing QB we have had. Only time will tell. Now if you call the QB scrambling for a first down when receivers are covered a QB run game, then I agree that we will have a QB run game. I just don't think anyone should be expecting a zone read type offense.

  • I agree that we will not go to a zone read offense. I do believe we will incorporate more QB run into our existing offense which may include zone read.

  • Not according to Josh on ESPN. The positive is that all of our QB's are mobile! They can move around in the pocket and scramble for a first down, if the LB's drop too deep, may be an occassional draw. However, Josh H said we aren't going to impliment a called QB run game.

  • I don't think the offense needs to be changed, I think when the receivers are not open we will be able to make 5 yards here and there with the QB's legs, instead of throwing the ball away. I changed my mind, I think we need to call a play and go with it, it kills our linemans firing ability when they get to the line of scrimmage and sit in their stance for 15 seconds.

    This post was edited by suntansoonerfan 18 months ago

  • I didn't hear the interview and have no reason to doubt what you write.

    IMHO I do believe Bell can run forward...I don't know if he can escape and create plays with his feet. I understand the others can.

    If that is Josh's stance...then I can write this:

    If he does not incorporate some QB run game beyond scrambles and draws when you have a QB who could do so effectively; our power run game remains non-existent like it has for the last three years and our new QB cannot orchestrate the passing game like Jones could (which is unlikely since they have no playing time)...our offense will not produce the numbers it needs (including time of possession) to cover for a rebuilding defense and we will have a difficult season, especially early on. It is such a questionable decision it could hurt his career.

    More than likely that was "coach speak" because I think Josh is bright enough to know some change is needed to meet personnel and to not speak about it during an interview. To quote James: "I think Josh is on the radio being plain Jane and not trying to give away anything that OU is going to do next year."

    Maybe he doesn't do a full QB run offense (no one suggested that) like Air Force, but I have heard he plans to use the new QB like the 49ers use Kaepernick or KSU used Klien.

    If he doesn't then I wouldn't want to be in his shoes if the offense doesn't produce. Lots of questions to answer.

    This post was edited by SoonerJuris 18 months ago

  • We have basically ran the same Offense since Bob has been here, with small tweeks. We have always been able to find the "next" QB to step up and throw. I have no doubt we will do it again.

  • Florida had success with the power QB run game because they also had great speed with their RBs (Percy Harvin, Rainey, and Demps). OU doesn't have anybody with world class speed like that. KSt had success too, but without the speed element, it seems like the ceiling is lower for that style of QB run game.

    I'd prefer to see something more like the Manziel style of offense. Something like this:

    -Consistent dose of read-option (5-10 per game)
    -Traditional shotgun/pistol/diamond formation runs that we've been running the past couple of years
    -Traditional vertical passing game w/a QB that has the consent and the ability to run when things break down

    That offense could be very effective with the right guy at QB. Maybe it's Bell, but Thompson and Knight seem better suited to it since they are more elusive.

  • My feeling is that we know how Heupel likes to use his quarterback. We even know how Heupel played quarterback. Heck, we even know how Mike Leach, who recruited Heupel, liked to use quarterbacks.

    (Given the statements made by Coach Stoops, I'm guessing that the Bell-dozer was something Bob put in, rather than something that Josh put in)

    Thus, given all of this lineage, I'm skeptical that Heupel is suddenly going to change his fundamental views about the quarterback's role in an offense. Heupel, the player, was willing to run for the first down. But, it was more of an opportunistic awareness (as the play unfolded, he saw the mistake in the defense … he wasn't calling the Heupel-dozer in the huddle ahead of time).

    Thus, my personal guess is that Heupel will continue to view the quarterback as a player that throws, not runs. I think he'll be totally fine with the quarterback picking up a few yards with his feet when the defense offers it up (especially because the chance of injury is much lower when the quarterback is just running 5 to 15 yards in open grass … with the ability to slide once he sees the whites of the opponents eyes [Jason White's knee injuries not withstanding]). In fact, he may be licking his chops at the thought of getting these extra free 1st-down conversions. But, my guess is that he sees it as a "bonus", not a change in how he views the quarterback position.

    I tend to think that people change/evolve little-by-little over time … not in one sudden moment. Obviously, I could be totally wrong. After all, Barry Switzer took one look at the cow wishbone and made an abrupt change.

  • I don't agree with this. In 1999 the offense was vastly different than any other year. With Q OU used the shuttle pass quite a bit. Jason White ran the ball a lot his first season. With Peterson OU ran the ball a lot more. With Murray OU threw to the RB a lot more. In the early part of Stoops career, OU ran a lot more slants. I think the offense has changed a lot over the years. I would agree it was fairly consistent in the Landry Jones era and that it has consisted of substantially more passing under Stoops than any prior coach but I see lots of changes. Even with Jones, OU didn't really use a TE this season and that was something different. Granted some of that may have been forced on OU due to personal but it was different.

  • Same basic offense with tweeks due to personnel. There will be tweeks next yr and I bet that Bell has more rushing yards than any of the previous QB's. It won't be called zone reads or option reads, it will be scramble yards and an occassional QB keeper.

  • What we really need to see is how well can Bell pass.

  • I think OU mixes in the zone read, but it will be a minimally used. OU will attempt to mix in run options but will remain a pass first team. You can't change your DNA in the off season.

  • The offense will change very little. We should be running the ball more and there will be a few QB runs but 90% will be the same.

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  • Interesting discussion.

    Just a couple thoughts on tailoring an offense to the QB. Keep in mind that Case Keenum wasn't exactly known as a running QB (think he had less than 100 rushing yards as a senior). So when Sumlin brought his staff to A&M, it wasn't necessarily ready-made for Manziel's skill set.

    And in the Spring, Manziel was running third in the rotation because he just wasn't taking care of the football. He finally won the starter's job a couple weeks before the season began and they took it from there.

    But because all they had seen him in was practice, where they would blow a play dead before a defensive player could reach him, the coaches really didn't know what they had until the first game. Once it went live and they saw what actually happens when the guy is in a game, they began tailoring the offense more to fit what he does best. Which I thought was aptly described above as "playing like his hair's on fire".

    Anyway, good luck. Personally interested to see Knight play at some point.

    This post was edited by Sin Miedo 17 months ago