Online Now 375

OUInsider - Owen Field

The place for the most trusted source for reliable, accurate information on OU Sports

Online now 225
Record: 4487 (2/14/2012)

Boards ▾

OUInsider - Owen Field

The place for the most trusted source for reliable, accurate information on OU Sports

Basketball & Other Sports

Men's & women's basketball, baseball, softball and other OU sports

O'Connell's Off Topic

The place for discussion on topics not related to the Oklahoma Sooners

Tickets Exchange

The place to buy, sell or trade tickets

Reply

Sooners switching to 3-4? *

  • Romar is perfect for the 3-4 because he isn't big enough for 4-3 tackle but he is an interior type guy not a true 4-3 end.

    I agree with your post about Parcells and I have nothing against a 3-4. However we don't have the personal at all. We played 7 db's this year because we had no linebackers. You say we will get inside guys but our recruits are currently a safety in Alexander and Evans hasn't played in the middle although he may be able to in the future.
    Nose guard is covered by one of the guys on the team. You need at least two to man that position. Kelly Gregg would be perfect although nobody on campus is anywhere near Kelly. Also agree Dimon is perfect fit for end now. So we have two freshman that fit the mold. I see Phillips also playing this position. End is much tougher in 3-4 than 4-3 because what you described about holding up in the run game and rushing passer is more true in 3-4.
    Finding freak athletes at linebacker is easier than tackle. This is probably true since their are fewer guys who are huge. Parcells freaks were Carl Banks at 6'5" 260 and Lawrence Taylor. These are true linebackers as are Ware, Haley etc. They aren't the little guys that you listed that are on OU's roster. Michael O and Tapper both could do this and Grissom. Time will tell if they actually are athletic enough to be stand up players. I bet we play the little guys that you mentioned.
    David King would have fit as an end. He is gone though.

    Brent ran the 50 front in 2010 not 2011. That team had Jeremy Beal stand up as a linebacker and Frank Alexander who played end and linebacker as well as Ronnel. Also had a middle linebacker in Box on the field.
    Beal, Alexander, and Lewis are all on NFL rosters. We have nobody above a freshman playing on the defensive line or linebacker who will be in the NFL.

  • I agree that finding the inside backers on this roster now is going to be a bit of "put the pieces you have out there and see who can do it," because there aren't many guys on the roster who you looked at their measurables and say "of yeah, that's my middle backers in the 3-4."

    But I think you're concerns regarding player size are partly a result of trying to compare the NFL 3-4 to the college game. Player for player, position by position, NFL players are a good bit bigger than college players. Jonathon Jackson was a hell of a DE for us at about 240 pounds... and at 240, his size wasn't remarkable in the college game. There are lots of 230-245 pound defensive ends in college 4-3 defenses... but in the NFL, there are no 240 pound DEs playing the 4-3 scheme. And if you can find a rare exception to that rule, you'll find a guy that announcers continually comment on how amazing it is that he can play that position at that size.

    That's why I think look at our roster and see 200-220 pound "backers" like Stiker, Nelson and Franklin and see college football's version of the 235-255 pound Demarcus Ware. And the fact is, as the NFL moves toward a more open offensive game, inside backers in the 3-4 are trending smaller. The Dallas Cowboys best defender not named Ware is ILB Sean Lee... all 245 pounds of him. Bruce Carter took Lee's place when he went down with an injury and Carter looked like a nice find... playing at 240. Shannon and Lindley are both in the 230-240 range.

    Will Shannon and Lindley be effective inside backers in the 3-4, time will tell... but at their current size, I'd say they're plenty big enough to do it in the college game. But as I said in my original post in this thread, we have to start getting more guys with that size/ speed combo... and we've failed miserably in the department so far this recruiting cycle. Mastrogiovanni would have been a good pick up, but has been lost.

    But, if the NFL 3-4 defenses can play with 240-255 pound inside backers, then I'd say college defenses running a 50 front should be ok with 220+ pounders... especially in the pass happy Big12. So we may have to make things work with a 220 pound Nelson at one of the inside spots until we can get guys with more ideal size. And I, personally, would have a very quick hook with Kish at this point. He hasn't pulled many players at a position that is undermanned currently and at which you will need more players under the new scheme than you did in the old.

    But that's just one schmuck's opinion... and the next time Bob Stoops calls to check my opinion, that will make an even once that he's done that. But I do have some thoughts on the "pre-announced" coaching changes, but I'm going to put them in a new thread so the great discussion in this thread can remain focused on the scheme change.

    I enjoy reading everyone's opinions about the proposed change, both those in favor of it and those that question it. It's what sports message boards should be all about.

    It's not the human walk; it's the human race - Nickelback

  • Oh, and I have a temperature of about 103... so if I post something that makes even less sense than I usually do, it could just be the fever talking.

    It's not the human walk; it's the human race - Nickelback

  • I agree the size doesn't have to be as big in college as the NFL but you still have to be that type of player. Lindley and Favors are both big enough to play any of the linebacker positions.
    I don't believe for a second that if Frank Shannon stepped on a scale at a wrestling weigh in he would be more than 215#. Aaron Franklin and Corey Nelson better eat a big breakfast to weigh 205#.
    Shannon actually plays like a linebacker so he can probably get the job done.

    We don't really have the personal to run a 4-3 either as demonstrated this year. I just believe our problems with it were no defensive tackles and no inside linebackers. Now we need one more linebacker and two more guys that are similar to defensive tackles.

    I trust the coaches know more than I do but I don't think it matters what we line up in there is a lack of physicality in the players for their positions. It was a program philosophy change a few years ago when more and more teams went to a spread. We thought we could change db's into linebackers and match up better as Keenon Clayton had done. Of course we had real linemen then. It turned out to be the only type of guys we recruited and you can't have the entire defense be that way. I vote the coaches made a mistake. The worst two defenses in OU history validate my point at least somewhat. I do believe they play against good offenses.

    We are a great spread offense and Notre Dame running a traditional 3-4 with huge linemen, linebackers and safeties held us to 13 points. Yes we got yards but points is what matters.

    By the way I hope you feel better. My daughter had the same thing and secondarily developed pneumonia.

    This post was edited by vbdad 14 months ago

  • Would get crushed by Bama.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Downvote Me.

  • Agree with this. Curious to know what Top 10 teams are running the 3-4? You need to have a 330 fireplug in the middle to require double and even triple teams for this scheme to work. Unless we get that size player in the upcoming draft I am not a fan of the 3-4. You also need LBs that can play in space. Do we have those on campus? Let me answer that-No. If we are going to get back in the NC hunt we are going to have to stop experimenting with gimmicks. The 7 DB scheme was a bust. I doubt the 3-4 will have much better, Once teams have had a chance to study it on film as the year goes on it will be less effective.

  • so what do we run coach? Don't tell us what we can't do... tell us what we can do.

  • Bred that is a great question because we didn't run anything well last year. I just think our talent is even less for a 3-4 which is scary.

  • question for the board: how would pass coverage be different/better with the 3-4 in the pass happy Big 12-2?

  • I think the 3-4 or 5-2 whatever you want to call it, is the perfect D to stop the zone read. 3 guys on the inside plus 2 lb's to plug the hand off and as long as your 2 DE's or OLB's whatever you prefer, contain and wait for the QB. It will be very difficult to run against.

  • You must pressure the QB and have a good secondary! The DE's or OLB's won't be able to help much in pass coverage.

  • I'm certainly not a coach but OU has to try
    someone to slow down the West Virginia's, OSU's, etc.
    I don't know if it's the perfect defense but it
    might help IMO.

  • WVU was very good on offense but they were held to less than 32 five times in regulation and three times they were held to 14 points. We were just bad against all types of offense.