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Recruit, recruit and recruit! Get the players and the coaches will do their jobs. The fire is still there in Bob's belly and he will get this done, Book it!
The evidence that a change was needed was in the play and not the record.
I am not convinced that firing three coaches will suddenly change our direction...in fact I am sure that it won't and if anyone thinks that sunny skies will be here immediately lives in la la land...as I have written several times the change of attitude and the desire to win must come from the top.
To that point...does anyone believe that Saban would suddenly lose his dominance of college football if three of his coaches left? Right after winning the national championship Saban stated that he would celebrate for a day, but then it was back to work...that is a coach that is the opposite of complacency.
Personally, I always think that in a competitive environment like college football it is a bad move to give a coach tenure. Stoops has tenure and that allows complacency to set in, especially at his salary. They start building homes and doing commercials and stop pushing the envelope. You see it with Brown and you saw it with Paterno and Bowden. Obviously, Saban has tenure, money and still has the burning desire to do whatever is necessary to win so complacency does not always set in.
When the Stoops boys came in 99 with Leach they shook up the conference with an innovative defense, hybrid players, great special teams, trick plays and a spread offense. They continued their offense innovation with the fast paced offense of Wilson.
I think that everyone would agree that on paper Texas, Nebraska and, in the beginning, Texas A&M had the better talent. K-State had the best coaching until Stoops arrived.
Over time other teams adjusted and Stoops lost his innovative edge. He relied on a system and recruited for the system and recruited well, but over time the special teams fell away, the innovative plays became to risky and as a result the system became easier to prepare for and you saw others catch up.
Now the system is no longer innovative, but old and tired...others have adjusted and surpassed us in some areas...and the recruiting has fallen off and you see the result in a defense, at least, that is no longer a strength but a liability.
So if firing three coaches brings back the fire and innovation then that is what needs to happen. However the innovation and fire has to come from the top. Sometimes the people below you do not want to make the changes necessary or cannot make the changes and you have to make a change of those personnel. I am thinking that this is probably why Shipp and Patton were let go, because they were not buying into the idea that change was needed.
I don't expect immediate results. I think next year will be a tough year, but three years from now we will know if this is a good move. But for today it is a good start so long as he shakes off the complacency and gets back to work.
This post was edited by SoonerJuris 17 months ago
I credit Bob for making drastic changes when he realized the football landscape had changed and we (OU & UT) no longer dominate the Big XII or nationally for that matter.
I think he knows that it isn't the "X's and O's but the Jimmie's and Joe's" that win championships and to improve on the recruiting front required some new and fresh faces. People who can relate to the youngest generation and have proven track records on how to close the deal.
Old school style recruiting just doesn't cut it anymore. Times have changed, and Bob recognized that. I support Bob's decisions, sans hiring Kittle.
I agree with the changes but am concerned about the selection process on new hires. Although I do think Mike should have a say in who coaches defense, I am concerned Mike might choose a friend over best candidate. Things went OK in Zona but not champion calliber coaching or player selection. And yes, you can win at Zona. I think by far the most important hire is a DT. The CU coach seems OK, but again, In my opinion, not OU quality. I would lover to hire someone that has STRONG ties to SEC country. That's where the biggest and best DT's are right now and damnit, we are OU and we can recruit there just like they can recruit Texas.
Another thing that I feel like is going unsaid is what is Bob going to do about the rules changes in regards to recruiting. Will Kittle be retained in that role? What are Bob's ideas on attacking recruiting next year?
Aslo, I WOULD LOVE to see Seth Littrel back at OU and recruiting Oklahoma and part of this region.
The defining moment in all this was the Kansas State game. Kansas State had a brilliant game plan on offense and defense. They took out our safety and linebacker out of every important play that resulted in big plays. On defense their DL befuddled our o-line. Right there IMHO a few of our coaches fates were determined. Bob has a plan in place to have better coaches. Patton and Shipp were very hard workers and solid coaches. Bob wants coaches that will help scheme more in staff sessions and in the heat of battle. If we are going to return to prominence we are going to have to first coach like K-State does. Recruiting is not going to get any easier. Our strategy to go more national in 2012 and less in Texas was a bust. The fact is that we don't have the national lure we did a few years ago. It is still there but less bright.
Bob has a plan you can bet your sweet rear. Getting rid of those 3 was the toughest thing he has ever had to do since becoming a head coach. Jackie Shipp was a world class recruiter and coach but something was a miss I can promise there and it wasn't just because he differed in the scheme. Patton has struggled ever since Kevin Wilson left. KW was Patton's crutch and it is most likely Patton was struggling on game days with opposing teams schemes. I also don't think that Shipp's DL was doing what Mike wanted. If it was insubordination that is a real problem. If it was not being able to teach the players that is a problem too. It was probably both. Kittle just didn't bring a bit of experience and little recruiting. I am sure Bob thought he would be a great recruiter. He had Patton on the o-line to help or maybe not. Bob wants to get back to a little of the K-State formula. I would bet the work ethic is going to change around the offices.
This post was edited by Sooner Redzone 17 months ago
The two best professional rookies in 2010 and both from Oklahoma City,Oklahoma.
I very much disagree- we knew what KSU was doing- we've stopped that exact offense before- several years ago. WE didn't have the Horses at DT, or on the O Line to stop them, or to move them off the ball.
Just like every other game we lost------ we lost them in the trenches.
You can disagree all you want. It was their gameplan that day. I am quoting Merv Johnson" Bill Snyder's gameplan was brilliant and KSU's execution". It was a defining moment in all this. It is what their staff did and ours didn't with their athletes and what they did all year. It was a defining moment in all this I am telling you and I really will let you believe what you want.
I think the complacency issue can be argued either way. Whether or not that has actually occurred, it's certainly a plausible scenario. Bob might have seen it in himself; he might have seen it in his staff.
Regardless of what prompted these coaching vacancies, we find ourselves in need of new blood in those areas where the dropoff in talent has been most evident.
Rather than bring in old friends or family, I really hope Bob uses every opportunity to make his staff younger, more energetic, and above all, best able to sell the program.
I hope Bob has indeed been keeping that list of the best and brightest in his wallet for these occasions.
I hope we will offer salaries sufficient to draw and keep the top coaches. I hope our recruiting budget is in line with those programs with whom we compete for talent.
I trust Bob will address whatever issues confront the program in the best possible way.
I am the morning DJ on WOLD
The line play, especially on defense, has dropped. While Shipp is a good coach, he has not been recruiting the talent to keep us in the hunt for the NC. Do you keep a coach because you like him and he is an OU grad? No. He was not getting the job done. The strength of your team must be in your line play. Our weakness has been our line play. I think the Coaches who left were appropriate choices based upon their job performance. Am I glad they are gone, not particularly. However I want OU to be better than they have been and if Bob's action gets that done then the choices were the right ones.
Merv said almost everything K-State did was new that day.
I am and continue to be a Bob Stoops guy. I like the way he carries himself and how he represents the university. That said, I too, questioned the Kittles hire. Now what we will have is a three new coaches (good), but (from what I read here) an inferior 85 man roster from years past. Therefore, don't expect miracles in Year One of the reclamation project. I wish and hope for an extraordinary 2013 record, but not expecting it.
I agree with this. I think Bob has maintained his fire and passion but just doesnt express it visually like he has in the past. I know that he sticks to his guns about always being in the Conference Championship game and he wants to compete for the NC every yeaer but what head coach or any coach for that matter doesnt. He has done what he needed to do to get the "edge" back for OU and this should pay dividends both on the field and in the recruiting rhelm.
I think Bob's overall track record speaks for itself. I agree with Peace in multiple areas. 1) DT coach hire is critical. I like Bryant and think he can bring a greater level of credibility with recruits 2) I also think Peace makes a great point about schemes. I thought and heard from others who know about football that OU was out schemed multiple times last year, starting with the KSU game. I think Bob needs to take the same approach with his next two hires as OU took with Bob some 13 years ago. Bob needs to find young, smart, up and coming coaches just like he was one a few years ago. From my perspective we will learn a lot about Bob by who he hires next. Identifying talent is critical part of any leader. I think the last two hires by Bob (Martinez and Kittle) have been questionable. It's time for Bob to redeem himself.
I haven't been a Patton fan for a long time. But he was given "notice" and was able to find a good job. Kittle? Very unusual hire to say the least. I think everyone is upset about Jackie mainly because he was a former Sooner player. However, he got a lot of grief on the board because of his recruiting-especially this year. I think Bob made changes to add some new blood to the staff. Another thing that the board is upset about (me included) is it seems Kish gets a free pass. Although he has just coached one year-his recruiting was sub par and his linebackers were non-existent. Wort is going pro? Please! Almost appears to be a double standard.
I think Bob made the changes to help the team. I don't like how Jackie went down and I'm leary of Kish. I think the next hires should be interesting. If the next hires have Arizona ties-it might be that Mike is directing Bob. I don't like that at all.
Riverboat Bob is baaaccckk! Big time risk involved with making this kind of wholesale change. One has to believe that this is not a knee-jerk reaction but the end of an ongoing evaluation of his staff. The real risk lies in who he hires to replace these guys. He cannot afford to make a mistake at this time; change for the sake of change will not be good enough.
Jackie Shipp: This one bothers me. I will not question Bob's decision; only that it bothers me to lose a beloved Sooner who has meant so much to the University. I feel for Jackie and his family; I am sure he will land somewhere and he will be fine. Maybe Justin Fuente needs a good D Lineman coach at Memphis? Or how about Texas A&M? (it is important to keep Justin Manning happy!)
I believe at the end of the day the old adage: "Coaching is a young man's game..." is so true. To say it even more correctly; recruiting is a young man's game. This spring practice may be the most important spring in some time.
"Sooner Born, Sooner Bred...."
I couldn't have said it better myself, so why even try. I'm 110% on board with these changes. It should have been obvious long ago that we needed an upgrade in coaching as well as talent, if we expect to be a legitimate candidate--not just reach the title game--for another national title. That was especially true of the offensive and defensive lines.
As OUinLA correctly stated, Bob has always had a tendency to hire his buddies to fill coaching vacancies, which only makes it harder to cut them loose if they don't pan out. Time will tell if he has learned from his mistakes.
That was before how many NC appearances, conference championships, and BCS games?
Some changes were needed. Bob did what he needed to do. Next year may be a transition year, unless OU becomes more innovative than usual. That means taking more risks. More risks would provide a chance for more wins (like at ND). We need two more strong recruiters. I am looking forward to the future.
It was obvious against nd and atm that the line play on both sides was not where it needs to be. There's plenty of talent around them, but it suffers against strong opponents because of the line play. It was also obvious that OU has fallen behind in recruiting with the elite programs, especially along the lines. I thought Bob would be too stubborn and point to ten wins to make any changes that obviously needed to made, particularly for recruiting. So, while I feel bad for the guys pushed out, particularly Shipp, these were moves that needed to be made if Bob wanted to make the team great again. Because, this team is a more talented offensive and particularly defensive line away from competing with anyone. So, the fact that Bob made these moves was not only an incredibly welcome surprise, it shows he is willing to do what it takes to be great again, including fire friends. Anyone that still thinks he's the problem, or he's panicking with these firings, etc, doesn't get it. This was one of those cases where this is exactly what needed to be done ... and he did it. The key problem, is talent, meaning recruiting. So, this is a huge moment for the program under Bob. He was willing to do something he has never done. Because it was needed. Now, the final judgement on this will be who else he hires. He can hit home runs here, lets hope he does. Clearly, it's not business as usual.
Finally, next season could be pretty bumpy. The returning defensive talent is inexperienced and no one really seems to know how talented they are. Keeping Russell in the fold is critical. But If he makes the right hires here, things will get really exciting by 2014.
Peace. Very well stated. I couldn't agree more. I don't believe we didn't have the horses to compete with K-State. How many guys are they sending to the NFL? Snyder is a great game planner and gets more with less than anybody, maybe in history. Bottom line is that we need to get better and smarter. Kittle was the epitome of what went wrong with Bob and his staff. That was an arrogant hire that left everyone scratching their heads. It failed miserably, like everyone knew it would. Thankfully, Mike walked back into the situation and is there to fortify Bob as he makes these tough decisions. They will get it done. I say "they" intentionally, because 1+1=3 with Mike and Bob. They are better together than seperated.
well if the changes occured with shipp cause of the new defense ideas, then i am ok with his being let go, i am not sold on this 3/4 scheme, we had trouble stoppin last year with 4/3 so i will wait and see, if we lose russell and one or tweo dont qualify, we will need depth and the guys will have to step up,, i do wish people would quit harpin on who gets paid what, do u gripe at your politicians about what they make for the rest of their life for what they do????...this changes have made some people happy , well at least some lol, so i hope people will support our team and quit raggin on coaches and players this year, give them some support like true sooner fans , i am startin to doubt some of our so called fans
JMO....................as i have said many times , the landscape of recruiting has changed the last 4 years. we are no longer one of the elites. we failed to keep up with the changing times. this past season it became obvious we had to do something different .
bob had a chance to address this with the kittle and kish hires............he didn't. if he had there's a good chance shipp would still be with us. it's obvious stoops just didn't 'get it' until this year. no matter , the damage has been done and we are now moving forward. plus i'm sure there were internal issues that contributed to this entire situation.
one other thing.............the big 12 conference hasn't helped , in particular , ou and ut. their participation in this passing league mentallity has helped cause their slides. it has helped the osu's and tech's but has weakened the two conf. big dogs. mack and bob bought into it and are now reaping what they sow.
As a fan, I love who Shipp appears to be. But, it was frustrating to hear "I love Shipp as a dad, but want to play somewhere else" seeming over and again. I wish him nothing but the very best. I would not want any coach but coach Stoops. But, I hope he chooses the best recruiters and coaches, whether his brother has worked with them or not. We don't want this to be repeated too many more times. I think we all know that a couple of more coaches really need to step it up, now. My hope is that they will. But, we now know that Bob will take the tough steps to right the ship. I am looking forward to this season.
When Bob first came here, we learned what new blood, enthusiasm and good coaching can do to maximize existing talent. I am hoping to see it again and have renewed excitement as I plan on going to my usual 8-9 games per year plus the bowl game, and watch the rest on TV.
Yes, it's interesting that the two defensive tackle recruits who are doing the most complaining about what's happened with Shipp on twitter had no intention of coming here.
How could anyone not trust the 2nd most consistent HC in the country? I'm very excited about the future and the upcoming season. Firing Shipp scares me a bit but I thought Patton has been a liability for years. Love the hire!
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