O'Connell's Off Topic

BrianSooner the Bible IS man made opinion. The only thing we really know about the Bible is that people wrote it in bits and pieces many years after Jesus would have died and then centuries later the church decided to throw out parts of the Bible they didn't like. How is that not man-made opinion?

What archaeological evidence are you talking about? The Noahs ark that seems to be reported as "discovered" every few years but yet no pieces ever make it to a museum. Or that shroud a few years ago that may have dated to Jesus's time. Or that burial site even the Catholic Church didn't support.

I'd actually be impressed if Christians could actually find one historical document FROM Jesus' time that actually mentions him by name. The Bible doesn't count as it was written many years later. The Romans and Jews kept good records for their time and some from those days mention John the Baptist yet none mention Jesus. Why is that?

Face it, your opinion on this is every bit as man made as mine. The only difference is your opinion is based on bigotry and mine is on equality.

ready to be impressed?

One of the best known references to Jesus is in Josephus's history titled Antiquities.

Other ancient writers who mention Christ are Cornelius Tacitus, Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, and Pliny the Younger.

Writting in the year AD 221(I know many years later), Julius Africanus quotes from a history of the Eastern Mediterranean written in about AD 52 by Thallus. Julius Africanus writes concerning the time of Jesus' crucifixion::

"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."*

Again these are documents written AFTER his supposed death. There are none written during his life by the Romans or Jews.

I know you're not getting what I'm saying here so I'll be more precise.

If Jesus actually existed the Romans for example would have considered him a major troublemaker. We have documents they wrote about major troublemakers. Why are there none about Jesus.

I argue, and so do many others, this is evidence Jesus is much like Santa Claus. Not a real person but rather a collection of myths and stories of other real people combined into one person, in this case, in a fictual story called the Bible.

I do not dispute Christians have been around a long time and have had Bibles for a long time. What archeological evidence should I be impressed by that would contradict the above statements?

One line strikes me as funny. "Like SoonerMan I am a Christian".

Are you saying that you two are the only Christians on this thread?

Dodger I know Soonerman is a believer by what he says on here

I do not know who is and is not

a person who has trusted in Christs death and resurrectiion as the ONLY means of salvation
by Grace through faith and repentance

Born again---the term Jesus used

our cultural definition of Christian is anyone who claims to be one---unbiblical

Soonerprices----right you are I do not know anything about SM

he's a pretty good fake with scriptural knowledge if he's fooling us

keep in mind not all scripture lifts up-------some points to man's sin and need for repentance

Preach it like it is not like Joel Osteen does

Oh, brother...where do you come up with stuff? Fairly recently??? Sheesh...

Klegg I did want to believe that so many people were accepting homosexuality but I saw a poll that said 53% of Americans agree with Obamas decision to not enforce the defense of marriage act. The poll I saw broke down the numbers by male, female, republic , democrat, independent and income. Very interesting to say the least. I can post the numbers later when I have more time.

Klegg, if the government creates laws on all morals we become a tyrannical state. We DO NOT have to accept the act of homosexuality, alcoholism, drug use, etc., but we have no right to impose our beliefs on others and vice versa.

The problem with society is we've become too dependent on the government to take care of us, and not turning to our family, friends, community, and/or churches for help when we're in need. The government does not have all the solutions to our problems, and when they impose unconstitutional laws it divides and creates animosity amongst the people.

The government's job should only be to protect the life, liberty, and freedom of its people. The government is NOT God.

I don't understand people attacking Osteen. People act as though he only preaches on wealth or money, but it just isn't true. Now I don't count myself as a fan of his, but I'm not a hater either. I do think its refreshing to see a preacher with an overall positive tone. I find that much more appealing than those preachers who fear God and only preach on sin.

Osteen has been quoted as saying that he thinks God wants us to prosper in our relationships, health, and finances. When I read that I don't automatically think he wants Christians to be rich or that he is telling people to try and get rich. Prospering in your finances can mean something as simple as not falling into debt and making smart financial decisions. Maybe moving from the lower class to the middle class.

I suppose the success of his church, books, and TV programs makes him a target for old school "Christians", but to me this is another time when people should mind their own business. Worship as you worship and let him do the same.

Just make sure to turn down your next raise...

I couldn't disagree more.

IMO you're opinion of him is what you want to believe, but what really isn't there. Seems like I hear a lot of complaints about him, but those complaining never know anything about him. Instead they attempt to label him with labels that reflect things that they fear.

Your real problem is in your comment that, "any devoted follower of God can discern the difference between Osteen's gospel and that of the Lord Jesus". How sick is that? Your strict, narrow view of what you think a Christian is doesn't allow for anything other than an old white man sweating, pounding his fist, and telling you that you're going to hell unless (fill in the blank). Open your eyes. The message can be delivered in many ways.

How silly that you would argue with someone living their best life? What could possibly be wrong with being the best you? You like to place the emphasis on "your", but then again you prefer a negative message. I prefer positive things and think you can live YOUR best life and live it through Christ. Bet you never thought of that, huh?

Godman is 100% correct on Osteen

I jhave read a personal interview-----exact transcripts with his words using the scriptures he quotes

the man is not about the Biblical message he is about twisting scripture for "your best life now"

there is positive and negative in scripture and my model is Jesus Christ and the apostles and disciples------and the Bible not modern psychobabble about self-esteem and best life now

DIE to self man's problem is he is all about self-----the heart is sinful
self esteem is absolutely not anyone's problem
the person who cuts on himself and the person who is completely arrogant have the same issue-----TOTAL focus on self

I have three little boys JOY Jesus first others second you last
Love the Lord your God Love your neighbor as yourself(other scriptures show that it is already assumed man loves himself naturally----we are NOWHERE told to increase self esteem but to be sober in assessing ourselves because God knows Man is all about self by nature)

Of course there are positives to the Christian life-----the fruit of the spirit come to mind
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control

who wouldn't want to be around someone with those qualities?

Cyber does not think incest and polygamy should be illegal among consenting adults?????
that is all I need to hear woe to them who call evil good and good evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cyber the label Christian the real Christianity are FAR from the same thing======hence people blowing up abortion clinics and your war references

let's get on communism and all the people killed in it's name or all kinds of other labels

far too many people who label themselves Christian do not fit the Biblical description----which is the only description that is real of what a true Christian is

man is absolutely dead in his sins from birth until being Born again by the Holy Spirit of God
Until that happens you are not a Christian despite whatever you may call yourself
we cannot approach a Holy God except through the blood of Jesus Christ
no other way no other name by which we are saved as Jesus clearly stated

EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD ON EARTH deserves Hell according to the Bible

is that positive? no it is not but a perfectly Holy God must punish sin

and He provided a way out through Jesus Christ

the Bible says man's righteousness is "filthy rags" the original language can be translated like "menstrual rags" pretty worthless in the sight of God

man compares himself horizontally and looks on the outside God looks at the heart and every heart is evil from birth on-------because the standard is Holy perfection

that is why Jesus had to die for us------and that is GREAT news