O'Connell's Off Topic

I appreciate your candor but if you knew or truly understood what I preach you could not disagree with it.

First off, the bible is merely God’s communicated word which leads us to a union and fellowship with Him in our newly regenerated spirit. Just try to think of it this way. Your physical body enables you to sense and communicate with the physical world around you. You also have a soul (psyche) which enables you to sense and communicate with the psychological world around you. When we repent and turn to God He then regenerates our deadened spirit. This spirit then enables us to sense and communicate with the spiritual God. This faith you allude to can be compared to the key that opens the door, but once opened you cannot deny what you see and experience inside the door. Just like your eyes prove or substantiate the physical objects in front of you, so the spirit proves or substantiates God in our spirit. After one has matured He can then enjoy a wonderful relationship and fellowship with the Lord. This is FACT !

Your offer of proof about gays is very weak. By that standard , you could also go and empty all the prisons as all would gladly declare that they didn’t believe they did anything wrong. This common confession would not prove they were not guilty.

Anyway, the whole point of identifying sin is primarily for the purpose of exposing our common sinful condition and not for discriminating. Just like a man will not eat if he is not hungry, so too a man will not repent unless it shown to him his definite NEED to repent from something. I do not identify sin or sins to point fingers at someone but to expose the condition and point to the one who has the solution. We are all sinners in need and that is why I personally repented and turned to God many years ago. Not only does God offer redemption but something even better than that in that He offers to replace our sinful nature with His divine nature. This is fantastic.

It is unfortunate that many Christians mistakenly get into pointing fingers AT people but that is not my way nor God’s. Sin simply means anything that is against God’s will or His standards of right and wrong. We are all guilty of this are we not?

Let me say something else that not many people are aware of. Jesus offered Himself on the cross as the punishment for the sins (wrongs) of all men throughout all history. This means that there is a sense in which no man is or can be condemned for his sins anymore. His blood covered the sins of all men so that the only thing left to do is for us to repent or turn away from the sin producing nature within unto Him for our redemption and regeneration. In a sense, the only thing that now condemns any man is his refusal to turn away from the sin nature and the sins it produces unto the saving grace of His spilled blood.

Does that make sense? It’s not so much our individual sins or our doing wrong that condemns us but what now condemns us is the rejecting of the Lord for the remission of those sins.

If a man is drowning and a person reaches out his hand to save him but he rejects the hand, what would you say drowned the man? The water or his refusal to be saved?

Beyond discrimination being evil, it just isn't Soonerman or anyone else's business. He'll use the excuse that he is instructed by the Lord to do this and that, but that same excuse has been used for genocide and other horrible acts. His comparison in his WAY too long post about prisoners being let free is quite possibly the worst example ever used on these boards. Homosexuals have committed no crime!! And please, spare us the obvious God's law excuse in your forthcoming way too long post....

And mind your own business. Worse than an old busybody at church.

Sorry to dissapoint you but our society is my business just the same as it is yours. .

As for setting the standard for all morality you, me nor anyone else is qualified to do this. Only the creator of mankind is capable and qualified for this. All you guys offer up is weak, subjective opinions which all differ from one another. If in fact everyone had the very same exact opinion, then you just might have some basis but such is not the case.

The prisoner comparison is valid in that they are are those who justify themselves just the same as all unrepentent people. Just like it says, "Every man's ways are CLEAN in his own sight." The man who murdered my brother claimed he had justification for killing him. The gay says, I was born this way (or what ever). The crooked politician says, "It's just the way you get things done and everyone does it" The thief says, "I only stole because I was in need and the other guy had too much stuff anyway."

I'm not discriminating against anyone because I maintain that we are all sinners in need of redemption including myself. You refuse to acknowledge this because it removes your self JUSTIFICATION for attacking me. You dodger, feel you have a justifiable cause for hating me because you lie in saying I am discriminating against a certain kind of person.

"For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It is by grace that you are saved and not of works, so that no man may boast before the Lord."

Your blind lack of comprehension of God and what I say deceives you. You think you are fighting gainst me but in reality it is the way and the truth and the life that you struggle against.

You don't go by the word of God. You go by your twisted version. You're of course entitled to that view, but you will never win anyone over with it and sadly, will alienate many nonbelievers.

Soonerman once again you babble but offer no proof.

If you're gonna argue for denying rights to citizens then you have to prove they weren't born gay. Where is it?

Nobody has proven anything in this thread. You cant prove religion. It's based off of faith. And if every person in the word believes something that doesn't make it fact. At one point many believed the world was flat but we know now that it wasn't.

Somebody please prove something here.

But those millions don't know how they were born (as far as gender preference is concerned). Those millions can't prove that something didn't happen after they were born like at age 1 or age 2 or age 5. There is just no way for a person to know that they woere born gay because nobody can remeber anything about who they were or what they were when they were born. It's not possible.

So would you consider SM a false teacher? just curious and trying to still the pot. :D

Will bisexuals be able to marry a wife and a husband? DM I personally think you were born polygamist so there a possibility you could marry multiple women.

just for my sake----could all of you provide me with an OBJECTIVE moral compass???
NOT-man made opinion????? IE "a million gays say they were born that way so that is proof"

Like SoonerMan I am a Christian---a couple thoughts.....

1. MARRIAGE as an institution is bigger than individuals. It is rightly defined as a union between one man and one woman and should remain that way

2. My objective standard is the Word of God---for matters of life and Godliness----Please state some of yours? your feelings your heart? majority opinion? what?????

3. Truth is a greater virtue than tolerance ever will be. Speak the truth in Love as the Bible says
The truth sometimes hurts-----my children know that
I know that
we all know that

4. The common MYTH that equates homosexual activists with civil rights activists is flat a LIE
A person born a certain race has absolutely NO control over it. The homosexual person---even if it can be tied to a gene or "born that way" CAN live a celibate life----in fact some Christians who struggle with that DO so

I do not hate Gay people at all------but if the Bible defines something as sinful-----it is sinful
every one of us is sinful by nature and by choice and that is why Jesus paid the ultimate price

As for Obama I pray for the man checkout civilizations from the past where sexual mores became more and more relaxed----just research it we are heading down a WRONG path
"Woe to them who call good evil and evil good" would be my words to Obama concerning gay marriage

I work with a man who is most likely gay----great worker and I get along fine with him-----I do not preach to him but if the subject ever came up in private I would speak the truth of scripture----I am his friend and still would be his friend but I would clearly state the truth

Cyberoth If you think Christianity is only some blind faith I would encourage you to lookup Archeological discoveries that support the Bible's historical accuracy, some apologetic materials that are out there. Only a person uneducated on Christianities foundations and premises would suppose it is some total concoction of fairy tales and myths

better yet.....explain away the TOTALLY changed lives of people who are born again in Jesus Christ----including testimonies of EX-gays

as the Bible says when listing a long list of sinful behaviors including homosexuality...."and such WERE some of you" indicating PAST tense and the ability of change through faith and dependance upon Jesus Christ

the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,
and self-control

If any man be in Christ He is a NEW creature----the old has passed away and the new has come

Soonerman KNOWS I speak the truth

NOTHING on this earth compares to knowing the savior who created all that is and living for Him

Live your life for an audience of ONE.......the ONE above

God Bless I pray that by the grace of God He opens your eyes to the truth

As I said before, marriage is a religious matter. Let the churches decide who they want to marry. Get the government out of it. We are not a theocracy. There should be no federal mandate.

Yeah, and a Unitarian Church will marry the gays.

Here's the deal, getting the government out of marriage altogether will protect the churches that respect traditional values and not be forced to marry whoever just because the government says it's the law.